IBA VS LUMS – THE NEVER ENDING DEBATE
As the topic suggests this is an ongoing debate and year after year this point picks up its pace right before the admission period.
The question, rather questions here are, why does this actually happen? What is so important about this debate? Who is the real winner? Why hasn’t there been any winner yet? Why just IBA VS LUMS why not KU VS SZABIST or MAJU VS CBM?
I believe that there is nothing special about the two above mentioned universities-I’ll justify my point. Both these institutes pick up the cream of students, students who have scored high and already have a high IQ level, and are updated. Induct the best, polish the best and return them to the market as the best.
There are a handful of these people in the market because of whom the students from other institutes or with slightly less IQ have to suffer.
Today these two have become brands, brands that stand out because we made them that way. No doubt they have some of the best faculty members in Pakistan or even in Asia (in the case of LUMS) but the point here is, what is the general public’s fault?
IBA is one of the first and oldest business schools outside North America. Established in 1955, with initial technical support provided by world famous business institutes such as Wharton School of Finance, University of Pennsylvania; and University of Southern California, American professors were assigned to the IBA. [1] Till date, IBA have maintained and managed their reputation as “The Best”.
LUMS was established in 1985, 30 years after IBA, and within a short period of time has become an elite class university in not only Pakistan but in Asia. LUMS was established on the idea of sponsors belonging to the country’s leading private and public sector corporations (I hope you can understand where I am about to take this discussion). The aim of these executives was to develop an institution (rather a breeding ground), which will (still is) provide rigorous (so rigorous that it’s suicidal) academic and intellectual training and a viable alternative to education comparable to leading universities across the world. With the President of Pakistan as the Chancellor of the universityJ.[2]
Now what is the big debate amongst these two, or what and why do they have this debate. If you look at some of the facts, according HEC, Faculty wise, LUMS faculty is one of the best in Pakistan and probably Asia. IBA is not bad. But definitely I vote for LUMS is better than IBA. The vicinity, style of living, and the infrastructure, LUMS rules the market. In HEC ranking LUMS has been given more points for faculty. Although IBA does have an exceptional faculty who are graduates of Cambridge, MIT, Harvard but in general it’s not better than LUMS.
Though the issue is not just about faculty but also students, IBA have more hardworking and brilliant students than LUMS. According to the HEC rankings, IBA Karachi was awarded more points than LUMS on its student base.
IBA offers 4-years BBA, BBA(MIS),BS and BCS degrees. It’s graduate degrees consist of 2-years MBA and MBA(MIS) degrees.
LUMS on the other hand offers B.Sc Accounting and Finance, Economics and several other disciplines. It also offers MBA degree at graduate level. More recently it has started to offer science programs.
Now coming to the discussion I mentioned earlier, both these institutes were based on the fact that a breeding ground was needed for the top notch professionals, where these executives could hire only the best for their top positions; deliberately or not, they missed out students from other institutes.
What this does is creates a swarm of jobless people around the country because of the monopoly of IBA-LUMS in different organizations; “graduate from LUMS, IBA or Foreign Qualified” is the basic criteria in job ads you see in the newspaper these days.
Additionally, business deals take place amongst “Friendly” gatherings of these top professionals, from the same institutes and hence the diversity of new business is diluted and resources are not needed to expand the business horizon and as a consequence Jobless People.
The concept of Street Smarts Vs. Book Smarts is important, as it’s because of the Street Smart people who are running around the city and country doing the work for these Book Smarts, and are the main wheel movers of the business world.
Now who is the real winner? IBA, LUMS or Someone else? This is the point that needs to be answered as this leads us to know who in reality should be number one. LUMS is all about research and development and grooming with intense pressure. IBA is bookish with street smarts, provided, IBA has less international exposure unlike LUMS participating in multiple events in and outside Pakistan and winning them.
The point here is, what will happen to the rest of the people who are about to graduate, with dreams of getting a good job, are those dreams a reality for IBA and LUMS only? Are those non IBA-LUMS students just wasting money on education knowing they won’t get “those” jobs? What is it that makes these two the “only two” a choice in the Pakistan business environment?
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Posted By: Admin |
I would like to address few primary areas which would reply in general to all of the issues raised in the above writeup.
Firstly it has been mentioned that why LUMS is the best, and it is so because we have made it. In response to this idea would like to say is that here we are talking about the overall market opinion. Definately LUMS’ MBAs are the best and they outshine even IBA grads from numerous aspects. It is a general market’s opinion which did not form over night or because someone told them to think like that. LUMS MBAs over the years have proven their metal and they have done it repeatedly.
Coming to the second point of what is the fault of general public or other business schools, i would say that no one here is ranking these business schools on the scale of good or bad, but we are talking about being best of the best and those who are capable enough to take up the challanges and perform at their best. It is about being outstanding out among others. Organizations with their objectives of maximizing the value for thier stake holders have the right to pick up the best resources.
Only LUMS is the institution which does not let any genuine telent go wasted because someone cannot afford to have the world class education. LUMS National Outreach program is one of its own kind in this whole region.
I think what differentiates LUMS from others is that the LUMS MBA not only educates but trains its graduates to respond to the situations instead of making them learn by heart the theoratical knowledge. It makes them more responsive to real time issues.
Thirdly all the opportunities in the job market are never dried up for non LUMS or non IBA. There would still be many opportunities for them to explore. But there is no doubt that LUMS is a different league altogather. If someone thinks that he is the best, then he should have the courage to come upto the standards of the best.
MUJAY TU 2NO E NAI ACI LAGTI…HAHAHA
AISE E LARH RAHEN HAIN
simply, iba is an instituion, lums has been promoted by government by government because it is in lahore, remember that intellect does not come by the degree, it is the process of generations. crux, lums is just another institution
and believe me this topic is the debate for only those who deos not know about things, the people who know about things know it that only instituion in pakistan is IBA,
I would like to say one thing i learnt from my teachers
” Shining Stars shine everywhere ”
so its not a matter of IBA or LUMS or any other business school ….its abt You, its abt self belief …its abt how u actualize yourself …so IBA LUMS or any other business school can assure entry ticket to the dance floor …but you will have to prove urself by dancing …….
I thought the author tried to raise a debate on some vague assumptions which I think are still known to the author only.
In my view quality of education in almost all universities must be compared. Unfortunately it has been not in this piece.
Why LUMS/IBA graduates are better is not because of faculty or students base or just reputation. It is the research work and quality of education which have made them the top destination for students.
The only valid point in this piece was that they provide good opportunities for networking. While other universities can have the same thing to offer once they work hard and beat the challenges of the top universities.
In our company we have a diverse work force with graduates coming from different universities.
In the end it’s the team work and the passion that matters.
Nauman Lodhi
SORCIM Technologies
http://www.reginout.com
LOL. ro kyun raha hay bhai ? Study for the damn test then. without test to CBM and SZABIST laytay hain students ko if they have money in the form of ‘donation’. also, if you are a sindhi to SZABIST to CONFIRM lay ga aap ko.
everyone is highly aware of such practices tabhi koi nahi poochta in univesities ko. IBA and LUMS main there is transparency atleast and they are known for “no pawwa admission”.
Suffice to say, the rest of the institutions have themselves tainted their names
The article should’ve been written in Late 90’s when Institutes like SZABIST or CBM were not that active, situation now have been changed. And one of the most offensive point in this article was the question about IQ comparison of students of IBA and LUMS. You cannot judge someone’s IQ by their physical appearance, neither it is possible, noone is roaming around with a measurement scale around his neck.
Second about the faculty, I was in LUMS three weeks its just 2 % of the total foreign faculty they have, that too are just for consultancy to students. In Karachi SZABIST CBM IBA HAMDARD MAJU IQRA all share the same business faculty, or visiting faculty who coaches most of the final year student.
Few of the points in your article would be justified if it was published in late 90s.
Regards
I did my Bsc from LUMS and since i got married afterwards, I had to do my EMBA from szabist. There is no comparison in any sense of imagination between these two be it in terms of faculty, students or in terms of education. IBA was once a very brutal force under Dr. Abdul Wahab but since he has left the bachelors program at IBA has been left as very ordinary. IBA’s MBA’s are recognized because there are previous MBA’s from the institution who make sure the name of the university stands good. The point here is that a university is deemed good if it is good. No university can make its name just like that. If other universities have to make their presence felt, they have to improve the quality of their education…its as simple as that..
what will the graduates of IBA or LUMS will do … ifffff i force them to run ONE garment shop in SHAH-ALAM market …. ????
Reading the article and then the comments. i got 2 very tenacious approaches or you say opinions. I personally think that it will be effete to play off with the writer’s point which he stated hat the students studying in other business schools dreaming for executive or managerial jobs is for no good. i agree with the writer. Simultaneously i was indulged in two educational streams one the CA (Chartered Accountancy) and the other in business administration program at IBA and then when i thought to taste the market and i started job hunt i experienced that indeed the employers entertain and prefer the LUMS and IBA grads no matter they know anything or not. The reason is these IBA/LUMS students have got a brand tag on their shoulders. its juts like you go for Muhammadi Ki Nihari or Jalil’s Chapal Kabab regardless of the fact k what actually is their chemistry. I bet you can get best nihari from any roadside small hotel but as that small hotel hasn’t got hype you will not value it and same is the case with the students of other universities. They have got much better IQ level and capacities than the grads of IBA or LUMS but their bad luck is that they havent got brand tag on their shirts.
Reading the article and then the comments. i got 2 very tenacious approaches or you say opinions. I personally think that it will be effete to play off with the writer’s point which he stated that the students studying in other business schools dreaming for executive or managerial jobs is for no good. i agree with the writer. Simultaneously i was indulged in two educational streams one the CA (Chartered Accountancy) and the other in business administration program for some piece of time at IBA and then when i thought to taste the market and i started job hunt i experienced that indeed the employers entertain and prefer the LUMS and IBA grads no matter they know anything or not. The reason is these IBA/LUMS students have got a brand tag on their shoulders. its juts like you go for Muhammadi Ki Nihari or Jalil’s Chapal Kabab regardless of the fact k what actually is their chemistry. I bet you can get best nihari from any roadside small hotel but as that small hotel hasn’t got hype you will not value it and same is the case with the students of other universities. They have got much better IQ level and capacities than the grads of IBA or LUMS but their bad luck is that they havent got brand tag on their shirts.
I WOULD LIKE CORRECT THE MISCOCEPTION OF STUDENTS THAT THEY TOP BRAND BUT LIKE TO SAY THAT I TALENT CAN NEVER BE HIDDEN SO IT IS IBA,LUMS,SZABIST,CBM,AND KU.ALL OF THESE WILL GET JOS IF THEY HAVE GOOD APPROACH IN THEIR ACDEMICS AND ARE COPMPETITENT ENOUGH TO FULFILL THE CRITERIA FOR ANY JOB.AND AT LAST I WOULD SAY THAT ALL OF THESE UNIVERSITIES ARE GOOD BUT SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THE SYSTEM IN PAKISTAN WE GENERALLY SEE THE BIG NAME AND BIG FAME!!!!!!!WHICH I STOTALLY INJUSTICE WITH THE STUDENTS OF OTHER INSTITUTES INSTITUTES LIKE SZABIST HAVE PROBLEM THAT THEY HAVE THE BEST FUCULTY BUT VERY POPULAR AMONG THE SOCIETY AND MARKET.SZABIST ALSO CONFRONT SOME OF CAMPUS PROBLEM AFTER SZABIST IS COMPARATIVELY CHEAP WITH IBA OR LUMS.
Wat i feel is that everyone here is trying to be neutral yet there is none who actually is. In my opinion the sense of competition create an an urge to fight .There is nothing wrong with it. This is necessary. 1 thing that the author has completely forgotten is that it is the alumina’s work that proves the university to the world rather than HEC ranking or someone’s comment.So stop comparing IBA lums on a governmental institution’s ranking which works under both zardari and our capable leadership. The enthusiasm to fight actually differentiate IBA Lums from other so fight till the end boys and girls:D
Bhai dono bekar hain MAJU is the best….Khapey na Khapey Munkhey Khapey
Both of ‘em are so damn expensive, that normal people cant afford both of ‘em, and even after that they are not upto intl standards. Theres still a lot of place for development.
IBA used to be the best business school in Pakistan. LUMS very quickly has gained fame. LUMS graduates have proven themselves not only n Pakisan but in the world market. The reason why IBA is still there is because it is much older than LUMS and it has an established name in the market. Moreover IBA graduates are spread around, specially in the Karachi market. However, the quality of education is not the same as it used to be in IBA. Hence, the pace with which LUMS is gathering momentum IBA might become a distant number 2 in the future. Additionally people in this forum have talked about SZABIST and CBM. The point that a very potent institution in Lahore that goes by the name of Lahore School of Economics (LSE) is gaining strength fast as the number 2 to LUMS in Punjab. LSE can be compared anytime with CBM and SZABIST.
Well, bro its not about ranking and stuff. It is the market which decides who is the best. The higher demand from LUMS, IBA and I foresee CBM as well that says who is the best and so on.
Regards,
Fahad Ahmed
IBA
Well, I think both the institutes are shining. Both are the assets of the Pakistan.
I have a masters from LSE(UK), a masters from IBA and undergrad from LUMS. I interacted with students of Harvard and other top universities across the world. I believe many students at IBA and LUMS had the calibre to outclass students from the world class elite schools. Pakistanis have talent. However I would like to add that I found students at IBA, intellectually superior than students at LUMS. Faculty was better at LUMS. With new IBA director, things are picking up at the faculty side and the infrastructure where IBA lags behind LUMS.
I feel this IBA/LUMS monoploy will last for a long time.
Best,
Ali
LUMS graduated 100 MBAs in 2008 and 150 in 2009/10. Previous years it was lesser than 100. Roughly 15% of these graduates go abroad and a few (maybe 5%) go into family business. Are you saying that 80% of the 100 or 150 graduates take up all the jobs Pakistan has to offer?
Then the problem is not LUMS or IBA taking spaces, its more about the lack of opportunities available in Pakistan and how we need more entrepreneurs and less job-seekers.
Think about it
cool started out with a lums IBA debate but ended up with what would happen of those other graduates… ummm nice coool.. misguiding at the least..
I do not want to get into the debate of IBA vs LUMS. But, what was the point of this article?? that IBA and LUMS are so good that other people can not get jobs?? that somehow it is bad for the job market that we are producing high skilled people??
and even if this is a real problem (which i strongly contest), then what is the solution?? promote mediocrity??
I think the point to be emphasized should be that something needs to be done to bring other institutions to the level which IBA and LUMS have acquired over the years. And, according to me, capability matters more than the name of the institution one has graduated from.
Both are good institutes with their merits and demerits. Have tasted both and understand that they both are giving the best to market
IBA is no doubt one of the oldest and best business schools of the country. Despite its old infrastructure and not so “world class” faculty, IBA graduates have outclassed LUMS on a number of academic and non-academic grounds. IBA graduates are not only prove themselves as skilled professionals in various national and multinational organizations but are some of the world’s best entrepreneurs. LUMS on the other hand has yet to learn a lot before it can come at par with IBA.
Having an expensive outlook, inducting some expensive faculty and networking with some elite organizations does not make an institute top-notch. IBA students are both more hard working as well as more street smart as compared to LUMS where students are pampered within well confined systems and policies. The hardships and tough circumstances faced by the IBA students makes them stand out in any and every kind of situation.
This is the lesson worth learning for all other business schools of the country.
i would say … knowing some people from LUMS and IBA .. and studying at IBA.. has shown me why IBA or LUMS are so good… i remember when in accounting my friends at Bahria did 6 chapters of the same book and we did 16 in the same semester … difference is there .. grading policy is very tough at IBA a B i.e. 3 comes above 83 while at many other institutes it is a 70 or 75 .. so hard work and knowledge pays off in life .. IBA and LUMS both are good and i must say people studying here should be proud.. both have a different culture … and both bring different advantages to a work place which employers welcome and prefer ….
“IBA have more hardworking and brilliant students than LUMS”
When I see comments like this, I realize no one who writes these articles has any idea of how to analyze the situation. Poor way of establishing credibility and a sense of intellect.
I agree to the fact that IBA has more hardworking students, and a much more difficult entrance test. Iam a student of lums, and have many friends at the IBA, so over the few months i have established one clear verdict on this issue: IBA graduates will probably be much more adept than those of LUMS for the local job market due to one fundamental reason: Most of the IBA curriculum is much more applicable to the local industry than that of LUMS is. LUMS graduates are more employable in the developed economies than in a developing economy such as that of our country. However, the IBA undergraduate program lacks academic diversity. There are hardly any courses from any other social sciences discipline besides economics. Undergraduates from LUMS are exposed to a rigorous curriculum that entails them to take up many courses of literature, philosophy, politics and history, and so I have noticed that LUMS graduates are more intellectually proficient than those at IBA.
IBA will always be number 1…..and like the picture above IBA is and will always be above….so stop dis crap n get bak to work